Looking the Enemy in the Eyes - A Story from Bill Campbell

Tuesday, June 17^th 2014

Today was my first day working on the Oral History project for Washington College, and it was definitely not what I expected. The rest of the group has been here for a couple of weeks, (besides Rachel Brown who just joined also, but has been doing this since 2013 so she’s already basically a pro) and have already had experiences with interviewing. So, for today I acted as a shadow while Molli Cole and Brady Townsend had their first group interview with Bill Campbell. 

To be honest, I was very timid about interviewing a World War II veteran. I had never done an actual interview before, so I was afraid I was going to be awkward and therefore make the interviewee feel uncomfortable. Also, I had the expectation that veterans would be reluctant to share their stories and that it was going to be all up to me to prompt them to be motivated to want to talk. But Bill Campbell, aka “Soup” by his shipmates, changed my perspective completely. He was very warm and welcoming, showing us his “pad” and the back porch he uses for bird watching. He brought us into his office, which was like walking into a room of his history being involved in World War II and the extra 10 years he stayed in the military, filled with pictures of his destroyer, pictures at award banquets, medals, uniforms, awards, and files that held information pertaining to what he did while in the war.

When we first sat down with Campbell, he gave us the rundown of what happened during his time out at sea on the destroyer USS Melvin. As the interview went on, we asked him more questions that gave us more detail of his experience. 

When Campbell was assigned to the USS Melvin he was the assistant gunnery officer. So, when the gunnery officer left for his downtime or rest, it was Campbell’s job to take his place. He told us that his first experience however, was a lot more extreme than expected. It was his first week on USS Melvin, and while watching over the gunnery office they were attacked by the suicide bomber kamikaze planes. These planes must have been terrifying, because not only are they bombing and attacking you…but even with two of their wings blown off, they will keep coming at you. 

One of the kamikaze actually dived down so close towards the destroyer that it was impossible for USS Melvin to shoot it down because the bomb attached to it and the debris could destroy their ship. As the kamikaze was getting closer, all the gunners could do was waiting to see what would happen next. As Campbell watched from the gunnery office, his and the Japanese eyes met...something that would most likely be the last thing that a soldier sees, but to their astonishment the kamikaze  lifted up and flew just barely over the destroyer. After that, they shot the kamikaze down. This was particularly interesting to me, because you rarely hear stories of how two opposing sides share an intimate moment such as making eye contact and then live on to tell others about it.

As this is only one of Bill Campbell’s stories, he had many that he shared with us. He and the rest of his crew were successful with their other battles and missions, and they also helped with the occupation in Japan after the war. They did this from July all the way to December, and after hitting a typhoon, the USS Melvin finally made it back to San Francisco to return to their wives after a long period of their life out at sea. He graduated from the Navy in class 1944, and is currently involved in the committee for setting up reunions for his graduating class. 

I will always appreciate how open Campbell was with us and how fun he made me first interview for me. I’m very excited about what else I will get to hear from our veterans in their moments of bravery serving our country. 

-Nancy Louck

The Life of a B-24 Pilot: Wilson A. Landis III

Going into our first group interview this summer; it was very exciting to finally get started. When we first arrived for the interview I noticed Mr. and Mrs. Landis had laid out various items of memorabilia including Mr. Landis’s flight jacket and a shadow box containing some of his service medals. Wilson A. Landis III was a B-24 bomber pilot who completed approximately 35 combat missions during World War II. He was shot down, had to evacuate his plane in the middle of a foreign country, lost close friends and saved the life of his navigator by carrying him wounded through the forest in Yugoslavia. 

What stands out the most to me is the humbleness he displayed when sharing his story even though he was incredibly courageous and faced great dangers during the war. Also, it was evident that Mrs. Landis is very proud of her husband’s service. Mrs. Landis shared a few stories and also showed us a piece of his parachute she received by mail when he was overseas. She told us while all the other ladies were receiving jewelry in the mail she received a piece of cloth. It wasn’t until Mr. Landis came home that she fully understood the significance of the gift and now she cherishes it as the parachute is what saved his life when he bailed out of his plane. I have often wondered what it must have been like living through a war such as this. When asked what advice he would pass on to this generation Mr. Landis stated “We have to be ready to defend our country, we weren’t expecting a war nor did we want to go to war, we were just enjoying our lives, attending college when the war happened”. It must have been surreal to one day be a college student and the next day you are at war. I want to thank Mr. and Mrs. Landis for telling their stories; it was a true pleasure meeting them!

-Nicolle Gamez

Under and Up Again: Our Time with Edith Noordewier Foley

When we first arrived at the Foley household, we had expected to obtain an interview about a young girl who lived in Nazi Germany, and later wrote a book about her time in the country. Little did we know, we were actually walking into a soon friendship with Edith Noordewier Foley. As we were sitting down for the interview, Edith told us she was not sure she had anything to contribute to our Oral History project. In fact, she handed us her book “Under and Up Again” and told us to read the back and see what she could further contribute. We were more than ready to ask questions after reading the summary of her book, and wanted to immediately jump into growing up in Nazi Germany.

Edith started her story and grabbed our attention for the entire hour long interview. There was not a moment where we were not intertwined in what this woman had to say, from having different food stamps and being ostracized, to watching her father smuggle Jews away from Germany which she later learned was just one of his jobs during the war. Throughout the entire interview, one segment was stuck in my head and I do not think I will forget it, “war does not happen fast, you see it slowly take away everything you know.” This rang true in Edith’s story, she lost her father, her mother became ill, and eventually Edith was taken from Berlin to the Netherlands where she could continue schooling and try to achieve normalcy in a time of war.

While Edith was not German, she felt the repercussions of having a German accent when she went to attend a boarding school that was specific to war torn girls, many from Japanese concentration camps. She was talking in the school one day, when a Jewish girl came up to her and slapped her across the face when the girl heard Edith’s accent. There was no way to react, Edith just stood there, and she knew why the girl had hit her, just because she SOUNDED like a German.

After hearing about Edith’s long journey that eventually led her to America, we looked down at the tape and realized that we had over an hour of audio, and decided it was a good time to stop recording. The second we turned off the machine, Edith offered us a drink and told us about her family history, the inspiration for her book “Never Gone.” After around another hour of conversation just as people, not as the interviewer and the interviewee, it was actually sad to have to leave the Foley residence. I felt bonded to this woman, not because I knew her story, but because she took the time to learn ours, and let us into why she chose to write down all of her memories. Eventually, we had to say goodbye and Edith had told us that she was glad to have met us, but I think Brady and I were more honored to have the chance to meet Edith.

--Molli Cole and Brady Townsend

Rachel's Quick and Dirty Oral History Tips

A lot of the posts on this blog have covered our reactions to individual interviews, but we haven't really talked much about the process itself. In light of that, here's a brief how-to guide for the aspiring oral historian:

1.  Come prepared! Do your research and make sure you know what you're talking about. I usually aim for having some knowledge of the historical context--the public history--as well as a little bit about the person themself--the private history. But also be careful to avoid thinking that your research makes you the expert. Remember, you're here to learn from people who speak from experience, so let them talk! Also make sure to have any legal documents or release forms prepared, and be able to explain them. And, of course, being prepared means having your equipment (and backups!) and making sure everything works.
2. Have a plan... Write out a list of questions you want to cover, and try to build the structure of the conversation in your mind. That way, you'll be able to get the information you need even if the conversation takes an unexpected detour. 
3. ...But go with the flow. Remember, it's a conversation, not an interrogation. This person is sharing his or her knowledge willingly, so reciprocate! Be calm, friendly, and polite; don't be afraid to crack a joke or two to set your interviewee at ease. Make sure they see it as an equal, friendly exchange rather than a brusque business transaction.
4. Keep an ear out. The whole purpose of doing oral history interviews is to record people's voices in a way that can be preserved and shared, so make sure it's worth it! Not a lot of research can be done from an audio file that's so full of background noise you can't hear the person speaking. It's easier to ask your interviewee to pause for a minute while the background noise dies down than to try to edit it out without losing the person's voice. 
5. Keep in touch! Let the person know you appreciate their time and their willingness to share. Keep them in the loop regarding what happens to their interview. If you can, burn the edited audio to a CD and send them a copy. If you write a paper or stage an exhibit, tell them! They'd probably love to hear about it or attend any events--people like hearing where their voices end up.

Oral History in Real Life

I'd never been aware of or had a real interest in oral history before being assigned to this project, but within the first couple weeks I came to realize that the Oral History Project is one of the most important projects we could be doing at the Starr Center. History is empty without the individual human perspective, and the Oral History project is the best way I can think of to really capture that perspective in a medium that can be archived and shared. To me, oral history isn't just a job. Aside from the value of preserving these stories, the skills that I've learned in interviews have made me a better conversationalist in my daily life. If you're used to beginning and guiding conversations with strangers twice a week, it's easy to start chatting with somebody waiting in front of you in line!

My experiences collecting oral histories  have also influenced my work as a short story writer. A recent piece, about the vanishing islands of the Chesapeake Bay, was told from the point of view of an elderly woman being interviewed by an oral history team (fictional, but in some ways quite familiar to some oral historians I know...). Having done about 15 interviews by the time I wrote this story, I was able to make the characters act like real interviewers: one character waited for a natural pause in the conversation to move his grip on the microphone so the grating noise could later be edited out without losing any of the interviewee's speech, a lesson we had to learn the hard way!

I'll also be able to use my oral history background this summer when I travel to the American Southwest as part of Washington College's Southwest Seminar program. As part of an independent research project based off of this program, I'll be interviewing members of the Navajo nation about how their use of the Navajo language relates to their sense of cultural identity, especially in the context of creative expression like poetry or literature. Honestly, these interviews will probably be pretty challenging for me! Not only am I trying to squeeze them into the program's already jam-packed itinerary, but I'll be working by myself for the first time, without my co-workers there to jump in with questions I might have missed, or an interjection to break the silence and keep things moving. I'll also be interviewing mostly college students--people my age, who generally behave very differently from the demographic I'm used to interviewing! 

So all this is as much to say, oral history isn't dead or dry or boring; far from it! It's a way to preserve knowledge and bring people together--and you never know when it might be useful!

--Rachel

Erasmus Kloman: Stories from a Former OSS Agent and World Traveler

Listen to his interview!

In learning about the life of Erasmus, better known as "Raz" Kloman, one is left pondering just when he had the time to sleep. Interwoven in service with the Officer's Candidate School, the OSS, the State Department, and other public bureaus, Raz managed to study at Princeton, Harvard, and Penn. Traveling around the world, Raz has written extensively about his experiences all throughout Europe. His life is one of unmatched service to one's country as well as a sincere appreciation for intellectual growth and worldly exploration.

In preparation for the Second World War, Raz began his training at the Officers Candidate School. Recruited by the Office of Strategic Services, Raz traveled to work in France, Italy, and many places around the Mediterranean. Working at the Russian desk during the Cold War, Raz was sent to study Russian at Harvard, and rose within the ranks of the agency during the conflict. Eventually, Raz would resign from the OSS and come to work for the State Department from 1949 to 1953. Focusing on recovery of the European allies after WWII, Raz was involved in substantial policy work with the Department, through which he handled important classified information. 

Moving through various public affairs agencies during the Korean War and the era of McCarthyism, Raz eventually moved to the private sector, working for the Philadelphia Ad Agency, as well as the Foreign Policy Research Institute at the University of Pennsylvania. In receiving his PhD. from UPenn in African Studies (in part due to his work with the FPRI), Raz would come to work with AMAX Global, a large metals corporation which highly valued Mr. Kloman's wealth of knowledge in global affairs and African studies. 

Rounding out his spectacularly long and diverse resume, Raz finally came to work for the National Academy of Public Administration, through which he worked extensively with NASA management. With NASA, he contributed to substantive work with the Lunar Orbiter Project as well as the Surveyor Program. 

In his interview, Raz recounts his amazing work with the OSS, recalling fascinating tales about working with resistance fighters in the European theater of the Second World War. His perspective on the courage and bravery of these forces puts into perspective the true reality behind the struggles of Axis control. In addition, Mr. Kloman highlights amazing stories regarding information gathering missions with the OSS, including one particular instance where he had to develop--on the spot--a plan to save himself just in case the mission went south. Clearly, his story is one of amazing risk and dedication to service for his country. If I could accomplish half of what Mr. Kloman has, I would consider my life a success. 

Raz currently resides in Maryland with his wife, Sue Kloman. In their worldly travels, Raz has written highly informative pieces  about his endeavors. To view and purchase his work, click here.

A Startling Reality: Stories Left Untold Forever

We at the C.V. Starr Center have been incredibly fortunate to have interviewed many of our nation’s greatest heroes, all thanks to the amazing work of our liaison at the Heron Point Retirement Community in Chestertown, Maryland. Their stories, now preserved, will be serving as a wealth of information for generations to come. While we will—one day—pass on to the next world, the first-hand accounts of one of our country’s most trying times will be forever available to scholars decades into the future.

Just a few weeks ago, Rachel, Alex, and I were informed of some startling news: since the beginning of our interview process, six of the potential WWII candidates lined up to be interviewed had sadly passed away. 

We were stunned. In a span of five to seven months, we had lost half a dozen stories to the ages.

While some of our departed heroes may have shared of their struggles, triumphs, and experiences with family or friends, many may have decided to do as those of their generation have done for many years: they could have refrained from telling with those who did not share in the conflict. This should not seem as though such veterans were holding back from the world, many heroes decided to keep the burdens of their service to themselves, so as not to upset those they loved.  In a way, they didn’t want to put their struggles off on anyone else; they saw it as part of their service to preserve the strength and safety of their family and friends, and not to worry them. In many other aspects, some may not have seen their own stories as all too important. Clearly, this represents a sincere humility on their part.

That being said, the reality remains the same. For about six or so individuals, we will never be able to share their stories with the world. We will never be able to preserve their experiences of WWII with future generations to come. In losing those six accounts, we have lost forever six different and completely unique experiences of American history. Who knows what could have been uncovered, revealed to all those who revere American history for what it has to teach us.

There will soon come a time when not a single person will be left from some of America’s most defining points in history. As a student of history, and with a sincere appreciation for American values, I believe that for any American citizen, it is our obligation to preserve as much as we can about the roads which have come before us. Without knowing where we have been, we will never truly know where we are going.

In moving forward with our Veterans History Project, I truly believe that each of us will continue our work knowing full well that time is fleeting. These golden opportunities to record the history of American Heroes are not to be taken for granted.

My final thoughts on this matter are for you. If you have anyone close to you who has a story to share about their service, or any other type of story for that matter, I would strongly suggest sitting down one day to hear it. That opportunity may not be around much longer.